bri
Participating Member
Posts: 10
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Hi
Jun 2, 2013 15:13:16 GMT
Post by bri on Jun 2, 2013 15:13:16 GMT
Hiya everyone Just a quick intro and a little about myself. My name's Brian (Bri) and I've known about JohnG for some time now from Midihangout - hi John. I'm a keyboardist (ex professional) and also used to play geetar, until I managed to sever the end of my left index finger on Boxing Day. I think I'm an okay musician but I never felt the need to use MIDI. However, just lately I got a hankering to find out something about it...after all, I have DAW's that support it, that have VSTi's included in the software and of course all my instruments have MIDI. So I thought it was about time I started finding out a little bit about it. My knowledge is zilch, so I have a long road ahead of me, but I think it'll be fun learning...fingers crossed. At the moment it's all those numbers that scare me, but John already said not to worry about those until much later. Here goes.....................................As I always say, Take care, Bri
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Hi
Jun 3, 2013 11:23:59 GMT
Post by JohnG on Jun 3, 2013 11:23:59 GMT
Hi Brian, A warm welcome to the forum. Thanks very much for taking the time to post a personal introduction. I do hope you find what you're looking for here. If you start with the basics and don't worry too much about all the message codes but understand the concepts first. You can always come back to get a deeper understanding of the actual messages if you need them. And if you need help, just ask away, I'll do what I can to help. Meanwhile here's an mp3 of my latest creation. www.box.com/s/igpfjn339o0ec1zj1ikt. It uses XGworks as the sequencer through Maple MIDI to VST Host running a copy of Gary Garritan's ARIA sample player. I'm using samples from his Personal Orchestra, Jazz and Big Band, and Concert and Marching Band here and the convolution reverb built into ARIA. The audio output from VST Host is routed back to XGworks and recorded there. It's a first rendering, with no appreciable work yet done on dynamics. I've had to transpose it up from Bb to A to suit my wife's voice. The original is more for the contralto range, my wife is a mezzo soprano. Onwards and upwards, as they say! Kind regards, JohnG.
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bri
Participating Member
Posts: 10
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Hi
Jun 3, 2013 12:27:54 GMT
Post by bri on Jun 3, 2013 12:27:54 GMT
Hiya John and thanks for the welcome. You said in your post, "It uses XGworks as the sequencer through Maple MIDI to VST Host running a copy of Gary Garritan's ARIA sample player. I'm using samples from his Personal Orchestra, Jazz and Big Band, and Concert and Marching Band here and the convolution reverb built into ARIA. The audio output from VST Host is routed back to XGworks and recorded there"
I have to admit that most of this might as well have been written in Swahili for all I understood of the technical details, but I'm gonna learn. In the meantime, I had a listen to this and it's nice. As always, Take care, Bri
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Hi
Jun 3, 2013 13:03:20 GMT
Post by JohnG on Jun 3, 2013 13:03:20 GMT
As it happens, Brian, I speak Swahili, not very fluently any more, I was brought up in East Africa, Uganda.
Essentially then a decode for you.
The sequencing software is called XGworks. It was brought out by Yamaha in the mid nineties to complement their various sound cards and sound modules named variously MU50 through to MU128.
When Yamaha bought Steinberg some years ago, they discontinued XGworks in favour of Cubase. It was such a good piece of software that I still use it, although it does have some drawbacks for the way that music is produced these days.
Maple MIDI is known as a virtual MIDI cable. In essence it's another program that allows the MIDI output of one program to be sent, inside the computer, to the MIDI input of another program. So not a real MIDI cable.
VST Host is a program that can run what are often known as 'soft synthesisers' inside it. In other words, they are bits of program that can be run inside other programs; plugged in.
These days there are loads of these VST instruments (also referred to as plug ins) available both for free and commercially. The company 'Garritan' makes a number of these soft synths available. They are, in fact, not synthesisers, but sample playback programs. I listed a few of the sample libraries that Garritan produce. These now constitute my main source of sounds for playing MIDI files.
So the MIDI information, created in XGworks, is routed to the sample players running inside VST Host, then the audio is routed back to XGworks, where it is recorded as a wave file.
Does that make any more sense?
Regards, JohnG.
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bri
Participating Member
Posts: 10
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Hi
Jun 3, 2013 17:51:22 GMT
Post by bri on Jun 3, 2013 17:51:22 GMT
Yep, I'm a bit more with it now John, thanks. I knew a little bit about VST's, as you already know from my experience with PolyKB. (I was proud of sussing that one). The Maple, now I know what it is, is understandable - basically an imaginary MIDI cable inside the computer (although it actually exists), linking one internal piece of software to another, rather than a "real" cable outside the computer, linking it to a piece of external equipment. I know of sequencing, but I don't really know how. It's all still a bit of a closed book to me, although I imagine if I create a MIDI file by playing a piece of music onto the onboard recorder of my Yammie DGX 520, that would then basically be a sequence made by the Yammie onboard recorder...sequencer? I can even understand the recording to a VSTi, very slightly. It's just when it all departs from the computer that I get totally lost, rather than mostly lost when the 'puter's there in the mix. So, in short, yes it does now make a little more sense than b4. Again, thanks John and, as always, Take care mate, Bri
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Jun 4, 2013 11:59:40 GMT
Post by sequenzzer on Jun 4, 2013 11:59:40 GMT
Hey Brian! Welcome to the forum,come sit beneath the shaded MIDI Tut Foliage tree with us,and John will break off huge chunks of MIDI bark knowledge as much as you desire... I haven't lost it..have I? Mike
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Jun 4, 2013 12:20:41 GMT
Post by JohnG on Jun 4, 2013 12:20:41 GMT
Hi Brian,
Okay, sequencing:- Let's look at how it's probably done on your keyboard. First of all, I'm guessing, without reading the manual, you hit a record start button, then everything you touch on the keyboard will be recorded as MIDI events within the memory of the DGX.
A MIDI event is just a collection of bytes, typically just 2 or 3, which are codes (think a bit like Morse code). The codes represent things like 'Note On' or 'Note Off'.
As an example here's how a Note On message is encoded. ------------------------ Note On code (the number '9'), followed by the MIDI Channel on which the note is to be played (a number from 0 to 15 representing channel 1 to 16).
Which Note was played. Middle C is represented by the number 60 and you count up for higher, down for lower notes (0 to 127).
Note velocity (how hard you struck you note) a number from 1 to 127. -------------------------
When you release the note on the keyboard another message is generated, very similar to the last one, which says Note Off. ------------------ Note Off code (the number 8) followed by channel number. The note number we want switched off (0 to 127). And optionally, note off velocity (seldom used). ------------------------
(Alternatively we could use a Note On message with a velocity of zero.)
A MIDI file is made up of lots of these Note On and Note Off messages, with timing messages in between them. There are loads of other types of messages too, but you don't need to understand about those at the beginner stage.
Just think of a MIDI file as being loads of little messages, with timing messages in between, all in a long string. We pull the string through the DGX at the right 'tempo' and the messages are sent to the sound module within the DGX and the samples are played back.
Now you don't need, at this stage, to remember all these codes. Maybe, much later on, if you want to edit the very fine detail within a MIDI file, you might (N.B. might) need to access these, but you can always look them up when you need them. I do for the more complicated ones.
Just before each message is recorded to memory inside the DGX, a little timing message is recorded too. This tells the DGX, when you ask it to play back the recorded data, how far apart each message should be from the last one.
Your DGX consists of two parts essentially, the keyboard itself and a sound module. The keyboard has little electrical contacts under each key and when you press a key quite literally a switch is switched on. When you take your finger off the switch goes off.
The other part of the keyboard is a 'sound module'. It holds lots of sampled sounds and a small processor which is used to analyse the MIDI messages it receives and play back the correct sound at the right volume.
Does that help any? Kind regards, JohnG.
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Jun 4, 2013 12:22:18 GMT
Post by JohnG on Jun 4, 2013 12:22:18 GMT
Hey Brian! Welcome to the forum,come sit beneath the shaded MIDI Tut Foliage tree with us,and John will break off huge chunks of MIDI bark knowledge as much as you desire... I haven't lost it..have I? Mike Hmmm! I'm beginning to wonder! JohnG.
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bri
Participating Member
Posts: 10
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Hi
Jun 4, 2013 14:03:32 GMT
Post by bri on Jun 4, 2013 14:03:32 GMT
Hi guys er, I don't know...I think my brain just exploded. John, just when I thought I was getting a bit clever, you had to go and spoil it all. Just waiting for the men in white coats to come and get me (lol). Seriously, thanks for the explanation. I do kinda get it and I'll keep going through it. Again, as always, Take care, Bri
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Hi
Jun 4, 2013 15:30:59 GMT
Post by JohnG on Jun 4, 2013 15:30:59 GMT
Oh dear,
Sorry if I've confused you! Which part of what I wrote was difficult to understand? If you could give me some idea of what you're struggling with, I'll try again.
Kind regards, JohnG.
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bri
Participating Member
Posts: 10
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Hi
Jun 4, 2013 19:33:29 GMT
Post by bri on Jun 4, 2013 19:33:29 GMT
Er, shall we start at the beginning and continue through to the end (lol). No, I'm just joking. I'm muddling my way through...s-lo-w-l-y, v---e---r---y, v-----e-----r-----y, s--------l--------o--------w--------l--------y. Really, if it weren't for this site, I'd be totally flummoxed, so all I can say is thanks to you John - seriously. I'll get there. As always, Take care, Bri
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Jun 5, 2013 13:38:18 GMT
Post by sequenzzer on Jun 5, 2013 13:38:18 GMT
Er, shall we start at the beginning and continue through to the end (lol). No, I'm just joking. I'm muddling my way through...s-lo-w-l-y, v---e---r---y, v-----e-----r-----y, s--------l--------o--------w--------l--------y. Really, if it weren't for this site, I'd be totally flummoxed, so all I can say is thanks to you John - seriously. I'll get there. As always, Take care, Bri Brian, When I started using MIDI for the first time back in the late 80's,it was all so confusing. After all MIDI had only been out just a few years,and people didn't really grasp the power of what it could really do at that time. What really helped me is books upon books of MIDI,how it works,in other words..MIDI basics..and reading them from cover to cover...and then over again...I really was fascinated by this new protocol. Then of course getting a good sequencing program(always stuck with Cakewalk from the beginning,first version was a DOS version)...Believe me,I used to tool around a full computer workstation with a MIDI interface card in the expansion slot,along with a 17" monitor when I was playing my very first sequences! LOL It helped me(in my example only) to go into event view and I could see each and every "event" that John was talking about,and I could play them one at a time by holding my shift key and pressing spacebar. Hearing what it does,seeing what it does..you really start to get a working knowledge of how things work when you experiment like that...You see and hear what happens in real time,instead of being directed in words only. In other words,Nothing takes the place of hands on experience. Don't worry about messing anything up while you are experimenting and changing things,because most programs if you edit a music sequence,will pop up a message when you go to close it,if you want to save it with the new edits. You simply just choose "no" to everything,and then the file would not be changed with the new edits you had done. It would go back to normal,no harm,no foul. This is how I learned,I did not have the wonders of internet back then like today,but having this information so readily available and so much of it at once can also make the tasks more complicated and daunting... I still have my old paperback copies of my MIDI books that I learned from,papers torn,covers shredded in some pieces...Those books were my music bibles. I think John explained it very well,but perhaps you can elaborate on exactly what you are trying to do in detail,and more concise helpful information can be conveyed to you that will help you to understand... Mike
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bri
Participating Member
Posts: 10
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Hi
Jun 7, 2013 12:13:52 GMT
Post by bri on Jun 7, 2013 12:13:52 GMT
Hi Mike Soz not to have got back b4 now, but just don't seem to have had any time...don't know where it all goes. Basically though, I'm just trying to work my way through this wealth of info from John - and at the same time trying to apply it to my DAW (Samplitude), where the information seems to be, basically, non-existant. So, it's coming along a bit, but very slowly. At the moment, I'm attempting to match channels on VSTi's on the DAW with those on the keyboard - which also doesn't seem to have too much info. As you know, at the moment I basically know nothing whatsoever about MIDI, let alone linking MIDI channels. Don't even know if that's the answer anyway, but I'm thinking that maybe this is the reason why, when I play/record a MIDI string track, it turns to a piano the moment I set a MIDI piano up for another track; because the channels are all set wrong, or not at all, even. Hopefully, I'll get there and in the meantime I've still got audio recording. Happy recording, Bri (LOL). Hope some of this makes a bit of sense. As always, Take care, Bri
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