Controlling drum kits in an Alesis DM5 drum module.

[JohnG]

Suquenzzer (Mike) wrote in a PM to me:

Hey John!

I haven't spoken to you for quite a while,and had a instrument specific question in regards to a MIDI function I want to incorporate that you may or may not be able to answer for me...By the way,I've posted this question 2 weeks ago to many other forums and also to the main Alesis website. No one knows with the other sites,but absolutely no response from anyone at Alesis PERIOD. Here goes...


I use the outdated(1996) Alesis DM5 module for the drum sounds with my sequences. It is a drum MODULE,really intended for drummers since it has all the "trigger" inputs for the transponders that can attach to an acoustic drum set to use the DM5's sounds.

The unit has ONLY 21 different kits. I'm extremely limited by using only 21 kits of different setups,and want to use ALL or most of the sounds at my disposal in the DM5 for different songs. There are a total of 540 sounds,Kick drums,snares,cymbals,etc...

I was thinking there was a way I can use a few of the sounds of ONE program while it's currently active and then AT THE SAME TIME some way shape or form by using system exclusive messages by MIDI can access additional sounds that I program in on one of the other active 19 kits. I don't see how I can do that on the MIDI implementation chart for the DM5 as it doesn't list as receiving or transmitting any type of bank change messages. In other words,it's only going to access the 61 key setup for the called up program that's CURRENTLY active.

Another way I was thinking of getting around it is to use a standard 12 key setup with GM of BD,SD,HH,Crash,etc...of where those drum numbers are supposed to be with GM standard, and then every octave use a different 12 key setup to GM standards with a different BD,SD.etc...then I would be using the same number kit,but transpose up each time in my sequencer up an octave if I wanted to use that particular set of drums. This way I can get exactly 5 setups in one kit,since I have 5 octaves in my 61 key keyboard bed...Any suggestions or comments to help me get the MOST out of my DM5 and it's array of different sounds. 21 Kits just don't cut it with 540 sounds! I may be pooched,but it's extremely frustrating to only use 21 different drum kit combinations,when you have that many sounds.

Thanks John for any help you could provide.

Mike

And followed up with:

John,

I sent a message previously asking MIDI questions concerning a drum module. After giving much thought,I think the way to go is to simply take the time to create the exact drumkit and sounds that I want for that particular song,save it to a sysex file,and then at the beginning of the sequence to simply load that same file before the sequence begins. Of course I'll have to give sufficient time at the beginning of the sequence before it starts musically to load completely,and it also means I'll be having to specifically describe the name/and store a ton of sysex files as well as midi files,but they are not huge data chunks to save,same as the midi files.

If you have anything to add to my resolution,I'd be glad to hear your input..

Thanks!

Mike

[JohnG]

Hi Mike,

Sorry about the delay, I'm in the process of house buying/moving which means I just drop in once a day.
Got your message and downloaded various of the DM5 manuals which I'm in the processing of reading.

Off the top of my head, no, you often don't use bank select messages to change drum 'KIT'.
With most machines you just use a program select to change kit.
In the reference manual, on page 35 (of my pdf copy) you can enable program change.
Then sending a Program Change message from 00 to 20 will select one of the factory standard sets.

Then, according to what I read, you can set up your own set with up to 61 notes (should be enough) each for a different sound from any of the 540 sounds available.
Page 11 is about selecting the sounds that make up a set.

So no sysex should be needed, as far as I've read so far.
And I can't find any reference to any SysEx messages anyway apart from some standard GM messages.

So... spend some time creating a few sets by modifying the standard 21 adding or changing what's already there.
Remember, you can always issue a program change to change sets part way through a song, then a short while later change back again.
You could have thousands of changes within an individual song.

Whether you can do that kit setup from MIDI I haven't read up on yet.
Just glanced across one or two pages that seem relevant.
I'll have another 'butcher's' as time allows.

Any good so far?

Kind regards,
John.

[JohnG]

From Mike,

John,

Thanks for the reply....Feel free to post it in the questions section,and I hope that it will help someone else if they have a similar issue.

As far as the program change goes,I'm just hoping that the minor delay in the program change when received will NOT affect the drums already in progress as the sequence is progressing. I'm thinking that there may be a pop,click,or some other non wanted effect when they are switched due to the fact I may have a 16th note high hat in progress,double bass pedal,lot of congas or tom hits going on,etc...I'm going to have to try it with a sequence and see if it will transition smoothly without any noticeable changes on the audio end. That is why I tend to prefer to do it in the beginning of the sequence before any drums come in. Knowing me,the amount of songs I have,and my tendency to "overwork" a sequence in terms of complexity and having certain drum sounds fit my ear for that one particular song,I can see how fast 21 Kits of different drum sounds will quickly fill up. I do many many 80's songs that involve much in the way of the artists at that time USING the TR808 DRUM machines,The LINN drum machines,etc..So naturally they were able to use a ton of different digital drum sounds,which I would try and emulate as close as possible. Sometimes that one unique detuned snare hit when heard will immediately clue as to what song it is! Let's hope Alesis put in a fast MIDI buffer to allow this CC program change switching to happen quickly and without incident. If not,I may have to reconsider the sysex route,and this would mean programming each individual kit to my specs to that particular song before the sequence runs,and then transferring through sysex at the beginning of the song..I'll let you know how things progress!

Thanks again John for your help and Take Care

Mike

[JohnG]

Hi Mike,

Aha! Now I've read the part about SysEx you're perhaps referring to.
We often refer to these as 'Bulk Dumps' rather than sysex which is more usually used for individual messages like "GM System On".

Yes, a bulk dump message could be stuck onto the front of a song file.
But, and it's a BIG BUT, it says in the manual that the drum sets bulk dump is 8K, and that'll be bytes.
MIDI runs at 31.25K bits per second. For data transmission over MIDI you can say 10 bits per byte.
(One start bit, eight data bits, one stop bit.)
So we get around 3K Bytes per second, if it's working flat out.
You can't assume flat out for bulk dumps. Fill a data buffer, transfer it to memory, fill again ... etc.
So, I'd say at least three seconds.
But ... try the dump process to a MIDI sequencer program set to record.
You may have to adjust buffer sizes, if you can, to make sure the program records it all.
You may have to adjust the transmit buffer sizes too so the DM5 doesn't overload or miss data.
Experimentation will be the key.

Now, the way I'd go is to create 21 drum sets with most of the 61 notes used e.g. for a genre of music.
Standard set, acoustic set, jazz set and so on.
As you said in the first post, if e.g. BD is on C1 (note#36) then an alternate can be on 36+12, and another on 36+24, etc.
Then one snare, say on note #37 and the other versions on 37+12, +24, etc.

Or, thinking aloud, set the main ones in the middle from 36+24 up the next 12 notes, then you can go up or down one or two octaves.
Make any sense?
That would give you, in each set, five alternatives to each voice without having to Program Change.
And you're quite right, a Program Change MAY cause an audible glitch.

I work out that utilising all 21 sets you should be able to pre-program something like 1200 voices in total.
However, it all means some time planning the voices you commonly use together and then setting up the sets in the drum module.
But having done that just issuing a Program Change at the start of a song should see you good.

As I said earlier, just thinking aloud really.

Hope it's some help.
Kind regards,
JohnG.

[sequenzzer]

Yup...Extremely helpful information indeed as I knew you would push forward and set things straight,and that is exactly what I will do..

Thanks once again!

Take Care

Mike

[JohnG]

A pleasure, Mike.

It gets the old, grey, grey cells working a bit. (just had my 69th!)
I'm so pleased that I can still figure these things out without any trouble.

Let me know how it goes, will you?

Kind regards,
JohnG.